Samsung Customer Support Center

[erdem_ua]

Samsung managers said/verified that, they don't care after sale support of their goods, they just repair broken TV's at services and that's all. Not try to develop firmware/software after device release but just concentrating developing on next years modals. They also said that it's how industry moving... I offer them that, we could cure old TV's firmware bugs and support the Samsung customers in this meaning but they don't accept.

[erdem_ua]

I don't think if D series are good. But heavily "DEFECTED". Specially D6 series.
I believe C series 3D quality higher than D series one.

[erdem_ua]

I don't think as you...
I don't tell them to produce new product line at every 6 months... If they can't make with quality there is no meaning.

Does AMD and others are deaf to support open platform? Or they doesn't big enough like Samsung? AMD recently hire 1000 linux engineer! Why samsung doesn't hire some engineers to fix the bugs?
I don't care if Samsung wanted to use closed source approach if they could fix BUGs on their TVs. But they don't even interested with problems. They act like they are doesn't exist!
For such a big company cannot hire 20 engineers to fix their goods firmwares? How much it cost to them? Say a million $ per year for the job... Does it hurts Samsung? No...
But they doesn't care customers that paid money for their TVs...

Also what they wanted to have closed source approach. What it means? What security?
We have mechanism to extract DRM keys from both C and D series TVs. Do you aware from that? That means failure of closed source approach.
We don't release that tool. At least yet...Samsung know this point actually. But they resist on keeping closed source approach...

So what is the meaning of this closed source "high security" approach? Could it protect the most sensitive thing in their TVs? No../
We asked Samsung that, we know the ways to protect their sensitive information like DRM keys...
We offered help to them. We don't request money, we don't request anything. But opening source of TVs for humanity... Became open sourced exactly for non-DRM devices.

But they want "signed executables" at purposed DRMless, semi-open sourced firmware. Hey there is no DRM partition on at that TVs.
There is nothing to protect! Why they asking for Samsung signed programs on such a DRMless TV? Why users cannot control their OWN TVs that paid thousands of dollars? There is no logical reason!

But actually Samsung Managers just wanted to have control on Samsung TVs.
They think that TV belongs to their-self, even after selling it! They rejects any users control except the TV channel changes!

Think that you have BMW car, and BMW says that. "Hey, you can't drive to that road and stops" even there is no rule/law to avoid to enter that road...
That's the problem.

Again, If do you think that Samsung has a right on it?
Thanks!

[erdem_ua]

I don't think as you...
I don't tell them to produce new product line at every 6 months... If they can't make with quality there is no meaning.

Imho, Samsung high end models offer the best price/value ratio as of now. (I'm talking about 46-55-60 D 7/8/9 000)

"the best price/value ratio"? Could it be best "price/performance" ? Because price=value for me and -> price/value = 1. Nothing more...
I don't have D7/8/9 but D6... If they can't produce proper D6 series like other price premium ones, they don't needed to produce it. It decreasing Samsung brand value..

Actually, the problem is on quality. Samsung and defecting consciously lower series modals picture quality for selling price premium ones... Like 3D support of D6 series. That is what exeDSP CODE told, not mine. But I can even understand this with my eyes. It's a crime at all law system since device cannot show FULL HD 3D.
I wish if it's coding/programing mistake but It's not! They just listen the evils call. That is shown at D series Support forum...
So this is why actually Samsung doesn't want to open source firmwares.

Does AMD and others are deaf to support open platform? Or they doesn't big enough like Samsung? AMD recently hire 1000 linux engineer! Why samsung doesn't hire some engineers to fix the bugs?

They will, soon.

I wish.

I don't care if Samsung wanted to use closed source approach if they could fix BUGs on their TVs. But they don't even interested with problems. They act like they are doesn't exist!

Maybe because only 1% report such problems (which indeed exist).
Why don't you create a "BUG REPORTING" subforum for people to write all discovered bugs? Samsung likes constructive behaviours.

For example, I filled a bug report about well known HD/4 (quarter resolution) 3D issue on D6 series and send it to Samsung "managers", they forward my mail to "CS Manager".
This manager couldn't return me with any answer for a week! For such an important issue...It's not a normal customer service. It's manager of it and the issue is unimaginably big for company like Samsung. It's a shame.
I wonder when they return and I wonder if they answer like this "please check your HDMI cable and 3D output of your BluRay device....etc" as they answered other guys... But they reported issues at 3D problem on USB medias/pictures, not HDMI 3D or BluRay input etc...

About bug reporting forum. Why? Will I try to fix them all? It's Samsung's job to collect the issues and fixing it, not us...
But their "customer supports" just joking with customers. They can't perceive even basic FW problems. Because if they perceive, they needed to fix it and they don't want to do! That's the real reason. So they talking back with some other thing that doesn't related with the issue as I told you top.... Also some of problems DELETED at CNet forums, without reason, like this 3D issue thread! I wonder why. There is a Samsung guy at that forum. Does he responsible from that?
So if Samsung doesn't care their customers and don't wanted to do anything about fixing FW bugs, why I needed to collect bug reports for Samsung?
Will they paid for me for doing their job? Will I became Samsung bug report collector manager? Okey I will open immediately.

Anyway, we just hacking and improving our TVs since Samsung doesn't care. Some times fixing some issues with hacks. But we are not interested in fixing / polishing original FW mainly. But interested on adding new capabilities.
I don't care what Samsung like because samsung doesn't care our likes. They wasted my hours/days for nothing...

For such a big company cannot hire 20 engineers to fix their goods firmwares? How much it cost to them? Say a million $ per year for the job... Does it hurts Samsung? No...
But they doesn't care customers that paid money for their TVs...

You obviously don't know how a big company/corporation works.

If AMD is small company. Yes I agree with you. But Samsung failed to support "their" customers. Failed to fix their TV's bugs. We offered help, but they deny our help too...
So, It doesn't means being big corporation but probably means being big on "doesn't know what to do"...

Also what they wanted to have closed source approach. What it means? What security?

Intellectual property (of samsung and content providers)

I.P. protected by laws and patents, not by closed sourced binaries... You have to aware this.

We have mechanism to extract DRM keys from both C and D series TVs. Do you aware from that? That means failure of closed source approach.
We don't release that tool. At least yet...Samsung know this point actually. But they resist on keeping closed source approach...

Sure, they are inside the filesystem. They are not made to stop you nor me. But to stop the masses from pirating contents.
Closes/open source has nothing to do with this.
I could opensource a device and then burn the OTP with whatever I like.
Anyhow I agree, Samsung is a little confused about this.

DRM keys are not inside the filesystem.They encrypted too. It's little different. Anyway.

So what is the meaning of this closed source "high security" approach? Could it protect the most sensitive thing in their TVs? No../
We asked Samsung that, we know the ways to protect their sensitive information like DRM keys...

We who? I see here a few people with real skills. If you want to be taken seriously by samsung you should not blackmail them and stop doing things you are not supposed to.
But you could hint new features and help them make better products. (that's not my opinion.. but I know it's samsung's)

SamyGO. With all users and developers. We have pages and forums that ordinary user cannot see. Do you think that we done everything at first place?
Who said that we have a target like to be taken seriously by Samsung? We don't care samsung in this manner.
If I wanted to be taken *really* seriously by Samsung, than I release DRM key recovery mechanism, but not the DRM keys. Key point is that, releasing keys might be unlawful on some law systems. But releasing the way/mechanism about how to guide to recover keys doesn't touches any law. And also no one could use that information to copy any video. It's information only. Not video copy program or etc But I don't target such a thing.
Samsung just wanted to hints that improve their TVs but doesn't give a return. It's like wanted to use electricity without paying it's bills! They don't want to fix their current TVs problems,defects,issues,faults. It's also illegal/unlawful to consumer laws at most countries! As you see, Samsung become doesn't care even laws. If we don't care it also............ I believe we look like an angel near Samsung in this manner.

We offered help to them. We don't request money, we don't request anything. But opening source of TVs for humanity... Became open sourced exactly for non-DRM devices.

You did that in the wrong way (for them): you should have first contacted them and talked to them. You instead created a group which main goal is to HACK samsung products.
I personally like it. But samsung doesn't.

How could we talk with Samsung at 2009 before creating out group, without knowing nothing about their firmwares?
How could we contact to Samsung and talk with them without being a group? Do we needed to talk to Samsung individually?
Look what Samsung Support tells the customers about the issues. User talks about USB movie... Samsung returns with "check the HDMI cable"...
Also you are talking about "to be taken seriously" at top. Does Samsung will take their customers issues or ideas seriously? Specially 2 years ago?
Do drinking anything or etc? You are talking non-logical.
Also HACKING is not a bad thing. Samsung LOVES using hacked software like Linux kernels, drivers, libraries at their TVs.
Every change is a "hack" on C code or it in ASM. So evey modification at source count's as a hack. It's nothing "harmful" activity like "CRACKING bank accounts."

I know, I wasted my time. But next time, If It happens, I request let say 500? per hour that I talk/writing e-mail/meeting with Samsung.
Some people has a habit that, if they receive free support/information, than they think that info is null/not important... We don't sell information to Samsung. Thats why they failed to understand us, what we offered to them, due we don't give price for it. But I decided that, from now, every bit of info is priced for Samsung... They understand from this language. It's also good for our self It's my fault. I accept.

But they want "signed executables" at purposed DRMless, semi-open sourced firmware. Hey there is no DRM partition on at that TVs.
There is nothing to protect! Why they asking for Samsung signed programs on such a DRMless TV? Why users cannot control their OWN TVs that paid thousands of dollars? There is no logical reason!

It's not them wanting it, but content providers. Samsung is on the market the most open source oriented company but it's not like the "no name" chinese companies: they can't just put PVR if the content providers don't like it.

I can argue on this if Samsung is the most open source oriented company. But I don't want to. Just wanted to thank you to GPL license!
And content providers has no control over customers TV choices.. TV bought by Customers, not by content providers! And standards are known. Like CI/CI+. But Samsung goes further from standards permits. For example they encrypts PVR files with DRM keys even if the channel not scrambled! Please don't tell me that "content provider" story. We heard that story much... It's not correct.

But actually Samsung Managers just wanted to have control on Samsung TVs.
They think that TV belongs to their-self, even after selling it! They rejects any users control except the TV channel changes!

That's totally wrong. They don't want any control, content providers do.
And, anyhow, you are free to take the hardware and write your OWN CODE from scratch.

What they don't want is to look at the content providers' applications, and proprietary hardware/software drivers.

No they just says "content providers" story again... It's not true. I told top also for related with PVR. At meeting a Samsung manager told me that also, for example he said NetFlix doesn't allow their videos on open sourced platforms. If platform has no TPM chip...I sad it's wrong. Actually it is wrong. NetFlix steams could watched by android phones from Froyo (2.2) whether phone has TPM chip in it or not. They allow Google to make it. But do they beat Samsung if it the same thing? No... Samsung just wanted to put "content providers" to front as an excuse. It's null claim.

Also, we can't write our OWN CODE, because Samsung doesn't let us do it. Why? Because they just released GPL'ed codes due laws obligations. For example they don't release sources of Tuner or graphic chip or any other vital resources in TV. Also they locked Linux kernel with OTP bootloader with signs at D series. Could you say that, how could we write our own code in this situation? We needed to re-invent wheel? Do we needed to write all this device drivers from scratch?
No thanks, we are good on HACKing current structure...

Also it's again null claim to about protecting content providers applications. We could look content providers' applications now since we are hacking the binaries. "Binary" low level shield cannot protect those programs with current structure. They are making all wrong. How Google protect their content providers applications? They are in open sourced environment but they don't cry like Samsung and say excuses about "content providers"...

Think that you have BMW car, and BMW says that. "Hey, you can't drive to that road and stops" even there is no rule/law to avoid to enter that road...
That's the problem.

I have a mercedes, and I buuilt myself a diagnostic interface for it, but I still rely on BOSCH and other companies for PARTS.
Every CAR (to follow your metaphore) must be "omologated" by the country you drive it thru. That's for safety.
An unsecured TV (which as we know is a computer) would be the perfect trojan for all kind of malwares. And that's where code signing kicks in.

You are wrong again, again and again.
I don't understand word of "omologated". But I thought it as "compatible".
You are talking about "safety".Firstly, Open source doesn't mean "unsafe". Look to google android as an example. Also I can say that Samsung current structure is unsafe. It's kernel doesn't have updates... Means, easy target for viruses/malwares/trojans. That holes doesn't care Samsung signing. Also TVs has much more security issues other than kernel. With a small team, it's easy to create a botnet by using those holes. Best part is, no one notice that bots since operating system is out user control since Samsung restricts it. So users cannot remove virus from their TVs even with Factory Reset... That botnet cannot shutdown easy if it start living once. I also warned Samsung about it. But they feel safe and trust their structures... Hackers says that "trust is a weakness". Good luck to samsung on this journey. But I believe sooner or later, some one want to try such a project,.. I wonder what Samsung make at that time.

Again, If do you think that Samsung has a right on it?
Thanks!

Personally I understand what you are trying to say here. But I also think you are using the wrong ways.
Hacking products will only make samsung angrier and angrier.
They will close even more all their products.

I just HOPE they will listen to me and create an opensource developer platform which won't contain exeDSP and anything else.
It will just boot and give you a shell.

Then I want to see people developing a better product based on that.

At that point, samsung WILL listen.

If you are sincerely interested in such a project, not some nerdy shell interface or script, but a full graphic and USER FRIENDLY product, contact me privately and we can further discuss that matter.

---
ABnormal

If you are searching guys in the wrong way, they are "Samsung guys" not us.
It's clear as water.

We are hacking OUR TVs. Not Samsung owned. There is difference.. We paid for our TVs and we have right to do every thing that we want, definitely under law permits...
Why Samsung became angry about it? We don't make anything but give "control" to users.

Samsung cannot became angry to us. There is a 2 reason of it.
First, Samsung is not a human or animal. Doesn't have nerve system. But Samsung VPs/CEOs might became angry. Old people says that "if you have a big money, you will have big head aches". They earning much, so they needed became angry and have head aches to deserve their salaries.
Second, those VPs/CEOs doesn't has a right to became angry to us. Because ,actually, they created us! They give our power to us by restricting their firmwares, by defecting their low end devices, by don't caring customers problems, by avoiding users to use other brand WiFi devices at for their TVs and sell $10 WIFI device from $100!

We are the opposite image of Samsung at the mirror. Samsung doesn't like it's image at mirror since they make "bad things". Until now, they tried to shut their eyes to us. But we are there. Then they tried to break the mirror to fade us out, but they can't...( Like restrictions at Feb2010 firmwares of B series TVs.) But since they became worse, image at mirror increases it's power. Simple as that. They has to be remember the Yin-Yang.

So if they close more source, we will use our rights due GPL and LGPL licenses. (they just open this parts actually ( ))
Also if they became worse, this empowers to us. It means we grow much more faster. It's good for us.

And what we could make with a dummy device "It will just boot and give us a shell". I can buy an arm development board for ~$20 instead of TV... That makes exactly the same job. I don't interested with such a dummy device. Open Source development platform needs open source exeDSP with open sourced drivers... Except DRM or related things. That is what development platform is...
Also we have already got the shell access to devices all Samsung TV series/devices. Such a dummy device doesn't better than current situation because we could still use every function at our TVs that we pay money for that, including DRM videos too!

Personally I like such a platform but needed thesis on standby, have a another project/task this days needed completed ASAP. So I cannot develop anything for a while. Might continue some small hacks...

Also I don't understand who are you and why Samsung needed to listen to you? They don't listens us. Why they needed to listen you? Can you please introduce yourself?
Do you Samsung CEO/VP or similar?
Oh thanks. Firstly I get angry about cheating customers due "3D Shame of Samsung" issue at D6 series. Please fix it first. Than give us job for what we are actually doing here with big salaries.
Also open the source code of FWs to SamyGO developer. We will fix/cure your firmware issues for you. Also collect bug reports for you too. Than you will have happier customers and have the +%15 share from TV market, makes the millions of $ boss.

Your faithful engineer.
Erdem U. Altinyurt

[marcelru]

To get this thread a bit back on topic

Some time ago my UE40B7020 stopped functioning, emitting a small plume of smoke from its back.
The people at the Samsung Service Center in the Netherlands were very friendly, and asked me to upgrade the firmware. After repeated explanation of the situation, including the smoke bit, they could be convinced it was not a software but a hardware problem, and they would order a new display for me. I argued that it probably was a minor issue, without the need for a total display replacement, but they were adamant. Since the TV was still under warranty I didn't refuse. Three days later, a very young man from the service department came by and wanted to install a completely new display. The one he had with him was quite crooked, and would not fit in the TV frame. So I suggested to just replace the video driver PCB at the back of the screen. He didn't know if that could be done and called the office, who confirmed my suggestion. After putting everything back into place, he wanted to upgrade the firmware, because this was a standard procedure at each visit he paid to any customer.

Now what does this mean?

In my experience, people at the service centre are friendly and very much ready to help, but they lack the knowledge to do it properly, or their managers just won't let them. The same holds for the engineers that drive around to do the actual work. They just replace parts, without knowing exactly what they are replacing and why.
It's a situation that's not unique for Samsung. Telephone companies, TV providers, ISP's, they all hire cheap call center staff to take up the phone when a customer calls. Any non-standard request cannot be handled by these call centers and will therefore take ages to get resolved. Last year, one of the Netherland's leading comedians took action against a phone company and only because it was him (he totally ruined a beer brand years ago) they started to do something about this situation.

So: Money comes first, the cheaper the staff the better. If you have a problem with a product that cannot be solved by the first line of care of customer support, it takes quite some knowledge and persuasion on the customer's side to get things done properly. Otherwise you're quite lost.

Quality of service is OK as long as they have to deal with very standard procedures. Anything off the list of standard actions is a hard path to go on.

just my 2ct,

marcelr