Talking with Samsung HD Tech at Cnet forums

[erdem_ua]

I put some news about our DTS tools that related with Samsung B series DTS problem at Cnet forum. Than Samsung official replies to my post and talk with me. I wanted to write conversation here. Here my message first:

Hi, this is Erdem, SamyGO project founder.
Do you want to play movies with DTS codec in your B series TV but you couldn't? Does Samsung not allow DTS codec in B series? Forcing users to buy C series TVs? Do you feel hopeless?

Okey than, don't cry boys. We have successfully implemented first DTS codec to B series TV. We have contest for it for a time and a one user successfully made it.

Price of a that tool is: FREE! Because the most beautiful things in this world is free, like air, girls(I don't sure about that one. grin )

You can download an application and play movies with DTS codec. If you satisfied, don't forget to donate us! happy
http://samygo.sf.net

PS: Tool will be released to public at today (or the next). Welcome to grand opening happy

than Samsung tech replies:

erdem_a,

Welcome to the Samsung forum. I've seen a lot of posts about your site, and there are lots of people who admire your project.

Two things, since I've not seen you post until recently.

1. There's a limit of promoting your (or any) site on the forums. I respect your project, but also please respect our boards. Since there's interest, I have no desire to censor your posts. However, requests for donations should be reserved for your project on your site, and your own site specifically states that you don't want money. Soliciting donations on the forum is not allowed, let's please observe the rules. That said, let's move on to a more pleasant topic. I welcome you. happy

2. We are accepting App submissions, and I've seen some of your handiwork firsthand. While I recognize that your site identifies itself as a "hacking site", I'd like to invite you to the next level in using our SDK in creating Apps and features and submitting them for review. Some Apps have a price tag on the Samsung Apps site - this may be a good opportunity for you. Clearly you are surrounded by people who can do some neat things with our TVs.

While it may be a bit unconventional for a global corporation to reach out to reverse-engineering enthusiasts (at least, on a typical day, correct?), I like to think that we're a little different in that partnering with people who are interested and knowledgeable on our products is a good thing. People want to get the most functionality out of their TV - this can produce some healthy results for both parties. Apps are also available through our Samsung Apps site for free, others are for sale, so maybe that would provide some incentive. Either way, I wanted to invite you to check out our current program.

Check out our site:
http://www.freethetvchallenge.com/

--HDTech

Note: This post was edited by forum moderator on 11/19/2010 on 3:40 PM PT

I give this as answer:

Thank you for invitation. I feel missed $200K prize because DTS app will be first since it's most demanded and wanted feature from B series users. It's really bad thing to miss it specially for jobless computer engineer that cannot find a job for years in Istanbul, Turkey. ( I specially indicated where I live because;)

I look your contest and find that, unlike our SamyGO DTS codec contest, you close joining from outside from USA. It's really really not understandable for me that why a "Korean" global super-duper brand restricting such a contest for other people that living this world, even for their own "Korean" citizens too... Anyway, If we are live in USA too, we has to use Samsung TV Application SDK. Unfortunately that SDK does not work for us because we are fixing Samsung "firmware" problems, not making an ordinary application Our hacks require to inject some codes to main firmware executable, exeDSP. So even If we live in USA, cannot win the contest due this hacking nature of our programs. So nothing missed.

For donation thing, I wanted to give more bounty to hacker that develop DTS codec. I collected $300 and send all of them as a bounty. Also no one try to make such job for $300 bounty. But it give a good taste when you finished such a job. It can't even comparable with your 200K offering, But your offer just for USA citizens not for us/others. Our contest finished. So donations don't goes to our hacker anymore. You can remove those donation invitation If you want. I don't remember If I read something like that on forum rules. Also here is cnet forum right? Not samsungs official forum? If I make any mistake, sorry for that. Just trying to reach much of people that suffer from DTS problem. Might be you can put a link to Samsung Main page to our site to indicate that a tool solves DTS codec problem and distributing it for free to all of "your" Samsung B series owners How about that?

Also I/we believe that Samsung doesn't like our works. Because it start releasing firmwares beginning of this year that restricts ExLink access, drops Debug Menu, avoids using non-samsung signed program to run on our TVs, avoiding switch older firmware versions from menu with out a reason... Sum of those clearly looks like samsung trying to disable us. It's definitely some of Samsung stuff doesn't like us but we don't know why actually.

We placed a hack that makes Subtitles bigger to make them readable by elder people. And also placed a solution to watch movies from windows shares/NFS shares to avoid using really bad DLNA implementation of this B series TV, that doesn't allow RR/FF on most movies. Also DLNA implementation cannot open most of video that TV could open! Sadly samsung don't implement DTS codec to B series even after they have dts license. Why do we make those hacks? Because you don't fix your bugs. So you are the main reason of us. If you do your job well, than we cannot be exist.

Why Samsung stuff doesn't try to fix their bugs but try to disable us to fixing them? Why Samsung don't care elder peoples comfort even they paid for it? Does Samsung wanna kill us? Okey, there is a really good way to do that I will show you. Fix every bugs on your TVs, that will hurt us much more than trying to disable us by dropping those TV accesses like ExLink, etc.

Its known thing that hardware boys doesn't understand from software parts much and Samsung is not an exception. I really like Samsung hardware. They know how to design and build it proper. But no one could say same thing about software part. Sorry, search on google and see the truth. I think you can easily see that from bug reports at this forum too... This not limited by TV but related with other goods like phones, etc...

It's really hard to find good software developer this days since M$ dominating with .Net and make developers to dump writers... Instead of building closed source TV, what about trying to make money from just hardware part which samsung really strong at that job and let people help you about software part? What is open source for? Open the firmware sources (not partially, fully, like exeDSPs source) and will find you lots of developer that develops your firmware for free. Other giants like AMD turn this approach and declaring their specs without NDA, hiring developers for make open source drivers. They have significant improvement on that way. This week released latest hardwares drivers as open source (fusion thing named Ontario). I think same approach will work good on your company. With such a move, might be you will have a chance against to GoogleTV.

PS: Don't take my criticism personal. If I say "you" just talking about Samsung. And some people finds my english/grammar terrible. I don't care of them

With my best regards,
SamyGO founder,
Erdem U. Altinyurt.

[dasilverpaladin]

Well said Erdem

[lost1]

Indeed, very nice post from you!

[erdem_ua]

I think Samsung may be obligated to keep their products secure for HDCP or other DRM.

What you are talking about? What is related with that? Does VideoAR problem on TV player is related with those?
Does samsung not fixing their bugs (like having too small subtitle font to B series TVs) just for make their product secure?

Here we DO NOT try to remove HDCP or anything similar. Just fixing broken parts, enabling disabled TV features...

There are ways to keep TV secure with releasing whole sources but some minor parts. But I am in doubt if samsung software team really knows those ways.
Also AMD that releasing open source codes but Video Acceleration code is closed for keeping DRM. Why Samsung doesn't follow same pattern?

Also, If they want to keep their products secure, than they needed to learn how to produce good code first...
I think Samsung needed to pay for better developers.
I am not a coding authority but I can say that they don't understand from software much but hardware.

[erdem_ua]

With a rooted TV you have access to the decrypted content being displayed on the device. I'm just saying that could be a reason why they focus on security, instead just of not fixing bugs/adding features because they want people to buy new TVs.

Really? Please try to record from some protected HDCP protected (or even not protected) HDMI stream from TV. It's already rooted but you can't. At least I couldn't.
If you talking about recording cable TV stream, it's nothing different than having pci DVB-C tuner with Card interface on your PC. Again you cannot access decrypted content if you don't have a "key card". But if you have a legal key card, than you could watch, record, play TV stream. Just like PVR, that included at top C series models for others, we just enabled the included code
For me, those bugs are %100 related with money, bugs are here just because samsung wanna sell C series, not about security woes...

[erdem_ua]

It's free world. Every one could make an application. But with those "applications" you cannot fix "firmware" problems or restrictions that we are doing here. Also we make some hacks that make samsung restless. Do they allow an application that Enables PVR on models lower than C6800? I don't think so . Samsung just wanna take share from Google TV and Apple TV pie this days but they are not successful at this job too. They are too late and trying to work on this way hopelessly... It's futile to resist google's dominance in TV sector. Specially with Samsung software development team... It's common knowledge that Samsung is really bad on software.
About peace, who needed to declare peace? I think stronger one. Here is Samsung more stronger than us. They have all money and all HW and all source codes that we don't know... Why do we needed to declare peace and work for them? For money? I think you have better to produce Andorid or ipod app instead of TV. Their market share has millions of people. Not worth to try to learn their SDK. But if you want to learn I do not even try to stop you